I had got... very involved with the... Evangelical Church of England at Morden ...and I decided that I would really like to go into the ministry … so I got in touch with Coram, and they... well, Foundling Ho-- Thomas Coram, as it was in those days, and they put me in touch with Delia Ashworth, who used to be the Senior Child Welfare Officer there. So I went and saw her, and we had a long chat about this … she found me accommodation at Oak Hill Theological College in North London, at Cockfosters … and then I got called up to do my National Service … I didn't do a great deal in my national service. The only thing I did do, and the thing that I really benefited from was it made me realise that at my age, twenty, then, and and my background and upbringing, that there was no way that I could go into the ministry, because I just didn't have the experience of life or anything about it. I mean, except what I'd learned over the last couple of years, you know. I did go back to college after I left, but then I went and saw the principal and said, "There's no way I can do this." And explained why, and he said, "Oh," he said, "I I I think you could cope, you could manage with this. Let's-- let's kneel down and pray about this." So we knelt down and we had our little prayer session, and... you know, "Go away and think about it overnight and pray about it, and it'll come clear to you what you've got to do, and come and see me tomorrow." So I went and saw him tomorrow, and said, "I'm sorry, but I really do not feel qualified to do this job.", "Oh, oh, it'd be such a pity if you give up now," so I said, "It's not a question of giving up," I said, "It's a question of I don't have the experience of life to do it." I said, "What-- what would I say if somebody comes to me and said, 'My wife's just died.' What am I going to say to him?" So in the end, he agreed that I could pack the course in... which I did.